Talk:Nathaniel Howe
Nothing indicates that the person in the Penny Arcade Comic is Nathaniel Howe. Jackimole 01:56, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, you were right. He's just a namesake bearing a very close resemblance. In fact, Rendon Howe had two sons named Nathaniel. Actually, this article is about the first one, while Penny Arcade Comic II is dedicated to the second one. IN 17:24, March 15, 2010 (UTC) I'm going to assume that IN is being sarcastic. The Arcade Comic clearly depicts Nathaniel Howe. Nathaniel Not Mentioned by Rendon Howe Well, I don't find it odd at all. Mr Gaider probably invented Nathaniel after DA:O was released, so poor late R. Howe had no idea himself :) IN 17:24, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :: Even if he had been, it's not remotely odd. Rendon mentions Deliah and Thomas because they're romantically interested in the youngest Cousland, not because he's giving an account of all his issue. 00:13, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :: Furthermore, Nathaniel said he was sent to the Free Marshes because Rendon didn't much like Nathaniel despite Nat's hero worship of Rendon. Thus it is of little surprise Rendon would fail to mention anything about a son he doesn't like and probably makes a point to avoid any news of. :: 20:25, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Jax Sparrow ::: Yes, but if you speak to Sighard, Oswyn's father from Tortured Noble, he'll mention how he would've intended to bring men against Thomas, not Nathaniel, heir to the arling. He'll say this whether you're a Noble or not. I think that perhaps the intention was that Howe would only have one kid, and its gender relied on what the Noble's sex was--since you can say to Howe "After this, I'll kill your wife and son/daughter, too," when you confront him--not kill his family. Hairstyle Ok, so Velanna has Morrigan's hairstyle, her sister Seranni or whatever-her-name has Leliana's hairstyle and Anders has Duncan's hairstyle. Seems to me that Nathaniel has Cailan's hair style. Thoughts? Prismvg 22:41, March 20, 2010 (UTC) :The thing about Velanna having Morrigan's hairstyle and Anders having Duncan's (and his earring) is that they were unique to those characters. Leliana's and Cailan's hairstyle is a style many other NPCs and some more major characters have, and some you can have yourself. I don't think there's anything to it, other than that hairstyle is rather royal looking--Eamon has it too. Same with Anora's hair being a sort of prim, up-class hairstyle. 22:26, April 26, 2010 (UTC) Grandfather Is there any idea of what the first name is for Nathaniel's Grandfather? Thank you. :) : Jax Sparrow 20:22, April 16, 2010 (UTC) Padric. :3 -MathiasAmon Dialogue on the article A quote on the article reads: (If Warden is from Human Noble origin) *'Nathanial:' You killed my father *'Warden:' Your father killed my family! *'Nathanial:'...touché. But I just started another Awakening playthrough with a Human Noble, trying to get this bit of dialogue because it looks amusing, and it never showed up. I even reloaded the game 5 times trying different combinations of dialogue and the only mention of this family rivalry is something along the lines of this: Nathaniel: You murdered my father, Arl Rendon Howe! Warden: Your father murdered my whole family! Nathaniel: The Cousland's were traitors to Ferelden! Warden: And who told you that, your father? Someone please explain how to get the quote that is in the article. What the hell is going on here? Is there some sort of editing war going on, or is it vandalism ? There was once actual information on this character (what his story was in awakening) and now it is gone. Balitant (talk) 02:22, March 1, 2011 (UTC) There was an anonymous user vandalizing the page, but I think all of the information has been restored. Denevari (talk) 02:31, March 1, 2011 (UTC) :Alright, let me know if there is anything that needs to be done. Balitant (talk) 02:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC) Dragon Age 2 "bug" In my playthrough of Origins / Awakening, I had my character kill The Architect. I ported this character to Dragon Age 2, but when I met up with Nathaniel Howe in the third act of DA2, he stated that "The Warden Commander spared The Architect". Is this something known or is it just me? There are tons of inconsistencies with your actions during Awakening and what the game records you did.-- (talk) 23:03, June 30, 2011 (UTC) Expansion Character Do you think we could put something in there saying he's from an expansion? This was terribly confusing for me since it basically says "You can find him at X location and he becomes a companion", which I didn't remember at all when playing the first game. Then reading further it talked about Anders, and I knew it had to be part of an expansion. For someone with bad memory or who didn't have the expansion, it would be extremely helpful if it was explicitly stated which DLC he was from to cut down on the confusion. (talk) 03:51, December 18, 2012 (UTC)Vigk Vagk v2 I'm a little confused by what you mean. It clearly says he is in the Awakening expansion right at the top of the article. --''--Isolationistmagi'' 08:22, December 18, 2012 (UTC) Portait in the Throne Room As a new contributor is taking down a paragraph I wrote, I feel I should bring the required evidence before the article is restored to it's previous state. In the first dialogue option after a discussion is initiated with Nathaniel, the Commander can guess that this portait is of his mother and it was created when his grandmother visited them but the portait is still depicting his mother. You probably confused the two characters, howevever the whole conversation is about Nathaniel's mother. Here is two screenshots to verify what I just said: 1st picture - 2nd picture 10:00, January 26, 2013 (UTC) :The second part of the conversation may be ambiguous as to whom "she" refers; however, it is rather clear from the context that Nathaniel's relationship to his mother was not good, or else the option "Do you have any fond memories of your family" wouldn't make sense. Besides, since Nathaniel worshipped Rendon most of his life, it is logical that he took towards the mother the same attitude as Rendon did. --Ygrain (talk) 10:20, January 26, 2013 (UTC) ::It's not ambiguous at all. The conversation is about Nathaniel's grandmother. Period. Nathaniel's grandmother came to visit and Nathaniel was paraded before her and picked on. Then Rendon did the same thing to Nathaniel. His relationship with his mother was most likely bad, but that's conjecture. The conversation in the throne room isn't proof and shouldn't go into his background. --kelcat :::I am not sure where you base that Rendon did the same thing to Nathaniel. It is not mentioned anywhere. Furthermore, the conversation itself wouldn't make sense for Nathaniel to talk all this time for his grandmother while the Warden Commander would ask him about his mother, wouldn't it? Anyway I would like to ask you not to revert the page until the matter is settled. As for signing your comments please use this command: 10:49, January 26, 2013 (UTC) ::::"...while father awaited his turn." Rendon was waiting his turn to pick on Nathaniel just as his grandmother had. :::::That part can actually well refer to Rendon himself being picked on - if the conversation truly referred to the grandmother and Rendon being nasty, then we'd have no explanation why Rendon hated Nathaniel's mother so much. And please, try to present your opinion in a less categoric way. --Ygrain (talk) 11:03, January 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::I think Ygrain was quicker than me for a few moments, so I just second her counter-arguments. Anyway the sign command is generated by just typing four tildes (without any extra commands around them). 11:07, January 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::: I'm going to consult with some people who know Nathaniel's lore as much as I do, and see if we can get this cleared up. All I want is for Nathaniel's page to be as precise as possible, and free of conjecture. I wasn't trying to state my opinion, I was stating what I believe to be fact. Kelcat (talk) 11:14, January 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::::I believe that the fact that Nathaniel doesn't want his mother's picture around is a basis for more than a conjecture, but presenting more information is certainly welcome. --Ygrain (talk) 11:30, January 26, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::Yeah, you're right. Nathaniel's desire to get rid of the painting is pretty concrete proof that he has no love for her, and I can see that being useful to add to the page. ::::::::This part of the changes is what's bothering me, and that I feel is incorrect: ::::::::"He, along with his father, hated her as they would be paraded before her as soldiers and she would always find flaws at them." Kelcat (talk) 11:41, January 26, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Alright I did some more research, and from the several people I polled, the general consensus is that the conversation is about Nathaniel's grandmother, not his mother. Here's some information from someone who is more well-versed in linguistics than I am: ::::::"Linguist here — the nearest possible referent for “her” in the discourse is the grandmother; when people speak, they rarely use deictic personal pronouns like “her” to refer to a person farther away in the discourse without realizing and clarifying. e.g. if he meant his mother, he would have said something like “I’d be paraded before her — mother, that is…” or have actually used the kinship title. Especially since this dialogue is written and scrutinized by the writers of the game (rather than naturally and spontaneously produced by a living, breathing human being), I imagine they would have caught the ambiguous referent if they had intended it to be the mother." ::::::This alone seems like more than enough to show that Nathaniel isn't referencing his mother at all, and that this paragraph should be taken off of his wiki page. It's just too misleading and confusing. Kelcat (talk) 04:44, January 28, 2013 (UTC) :::::::I am well aware what a referent is, I studied linguistics as well. Thing is, this is how confusions originate - the referent which the writer/speaker had in mind is not the one the reader/listener perceives because the speaker doesn't realise they inserted a word with the same referent. It is quite a common mistake in speech; perhaps less common in writing but can still occur. This is why I said above that the statement is confusing - from the referent, it seems that he is talking about the grandmother; from the broader context, we need an explanation why Rendon hated his wife and why Nathaniel has hard feelings towards her, as well - if the referent is grandmother, then this information is missing. I don't think this conflicting interpretation can be solved on the basis of the game material itself as it doesn't provide any further clues; perhaps you could try and fish the BSN forums if this is mentioned anywhere? --Ygrain (talk) 05:30, January 28, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::I guess I'm not understanding why I need to provide all the proof for this. If the statement is indeed as ambiguous as you believe it to be, then why have this information on his page at all? It's being stated on the page as a definitive, and it's clearly not. Why not err on the side of caution? A statement can be made about Nathaniel and his relationship with his mother just by referencing that Nathaniel didn't want his mother's picture on the wall. There's no need to have any of the other stuff in there, seeing as it's apparently confusing to some. Kelcat (talk) 05:35, January 28, 2013 (UTC) Dialog Points Still says "This list is incomplete. You can help the Dragon Age Wiki by expanding it." but the list is complete. Not sure how to get this note taken out. Kelcat (talk) 16:23, May 20, 2013 (UTC) :The trick is to remove the template as I did on my edit. 17:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Much obliged; I'll note that for the future!Kelcat (talk) 23:48, May 20, 2013 (UTC) Epilogue How do you get Nat saving Fergus showing up in the epilogue?--Dalish Arrow (talk) 23:45, January 29, 2014 (UTC) Birth year I know Nathaniel is 30 at the beginning of Awakening which took place in 9:41, but depending on the month of Nathaniel's birth, it's possible he could have been born in 9:00 rather than 9:01. Unless there's a source that specifically stats his birth year? -- 03:11, April 6, 2015 (UTC)